Transcript: Ryan Crocker on “Face the Nation,” August 22, 2021
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The following is a transcript of an interview with former U.S. Ambassador to Afghanistan Ryan Crocker that aired on Sunday, August 22, 2021, on “Face the Nation.”
MAJOR GARRETT: Welcome back to FACE THE NATION. For more on Afghanistan, we turn to Ryan Crocker, who served as the US ambassador to Afghanistan. Mr. Ambassador, good morning. Earlier this week, you said you had grave concerns about President Biden’s capacity to lead. What specifically did you mean by that?
FORMER US AMBASSADOR TO AFGHANISTAN RYAN CROCKER: What I meant by that, MAJOR, is the way not only how his decision was made to withdraw, but then its execution, which has been so far catastrophic. You know, we’ve got desperate people, American citizens, other Afghans we’ve helped, you name it, doing anything they can to- to get out of Kabul. And we will all remember that- those horrible images of Afghans who had clung to a wheel well on a C17 dropping out of the sky to their deaths. So the execute- the decision and the execution and the execution in particular does not speak to competency.
MAJOR GARRETT: And when you talk about capacity, are you saying anything else outside of what you just articulated, meaning execution and decisions?
AMB. CROCKER: Well, MAJOR, we’ve got to be- we’ve got to be fair here and- and a little bit honest with ourselves. President Biden didn’t create this whole scenario. President Trump did by engaging the Taliban in talks without the Afghan government in the room. That began a process of delegitimization of the state and its security forces. That was a huge contributing factor to where we are now. I mean, that said, President Biden owns it. He- he- he’s taken ownership of the policy. He has taken ownership of the envoy who negotiated this thing. So lots of blame to go around here, but it doesn’t all fall on President Biden.
MAJOR GARRETT: You are deeply familiar with this region and many of the players in the next week. Mr. Ambassador, what are you most afraid of?
AMB. CROCKER: I am afraid that as the Taliban gains more control, as they settle in a bit more, they are going to go after all of those in Afghanistan who have spoken the truth then in the media, who have represented the institutions of this young democracy and certainly those who have helped us directly like the interpreters. I’m very much afraid that this is going to get worse. The chaos may subside, but as it does, I am terribly worried you’re going to see the Taliban start to methodically take care of those they consider their enemies. We will be in no position to help them.
MAJOR GARRETT: Mr. Ambassador, as you’re probably well aware of, many members of Congress, senators and House office members are creating, if you will, satellite state departments, trying to use whatever means they have email, cell phone calls to try to work on behalf of either constituents or those that they have come to know in Afghanistan to get them out. What does that say about the functionality of the current State Department?
AMB. CROCKER: Well, with respect to State Department personnel, I mean, among my heroes are those state people out of the airport right now doing everything they can to make this process work faster and to work better. That said, there are capacity problems. Those on the front lines did not create those problems and are not in a position to fix them. But it’s just incredibly important that we concentrate now on getting those folks out. Look, right as we speak. I am involved in an effort to get a particularly prominent person out of that country before it’s too late. It’s kind of like the Dunkirk evacuation. So it’s again, it’s- it’s a really rough time. It didn’t need to be this way. Look, Mike McCaul, ranking member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee and I did a joint op-ed at the beginning of May when we said here’s what the administration needs to do. If they’re going all the way out, which we opposed, you know, they’ve got to have a way to get intelligence capabilities offshore that are going to work and keep our nation safe. They’ve got to take care, obviously, of American citizens. They’ve got to take care of the interpreters. They have to take care of those women and girls who are particularly vulnerable. You know, we put all that out there again three and a half months ago. None of it was acted on.
MAJOR GARRETT: I’m going to give you three countries, China, Pakistan, Russia. Have the events of the last two weeks made America weaker vis a vis those three countries?
AMB. CROCKER: It has created a global crisis, quite frankly. It has emboldened violent Islamic radicals, and I think we’re all going to see the fallout of that, certainly in Pakistan. They championed the Taliban because they felt they had no choice. Well, the Taliban victory, the narrative of defeating the great- the great infidel empowers radicals in Pakistan that they’re going to have to deal with if they can. And that’s a country of 220 million people with nuclear weapons. China has its Uyghur Muslim population in its west. They’re tuned in. They’re- they’re- they’re definitely looking at what happened in Afghanistan. And, of course, the Russians have their own Muslim populations in very violent places in the past, like Chechnya. So they might be doing a little bit of high fiving. But, boy, it’s not going to last because what is happening in Afghanistan isn’t going to stay in Afghanistan. This will be felt around the world.
MAJOR GARRETT: Ryan Crocker, former ambassador to Afghanistan on behalf of the United States government, coming to us from Spokane, Washington. We thank you, sir, very much for your time and expertise. We’ll be right back with the latest on the coronavirus pandemic.
Transcript: Ryan Crocker on “Face the Nation”
The following is a transcript of an interview with former U.S. Ambassador to Afghanistan Ryan Crocker that aired on Sunday, August 22, 2021, on “Face the Nation.”
MAJOR GARRETT: Welcome back to FACE THE NATION. For more on Afghanistan, we turn to Ryan Crocker, who served as the US ambassador to Afghanistan. Mr. Ambassador, good morning. Earlier this week, you said you had grave concerns about President Biden’s capacity to lead. What specifically did you mean by that?
FORMER US AMBASSADOR TO AFGHANISTAN RYAN CROCKER: What I meant by that, MAJOR, is the way not only how his decision was made to withdraw, but then its execution, which has been so far catastrophic. You know, we’ve got desperate people, American citizens, other Afghans we’ve helped, you name it, doing anything they can to- to get out of Kabul. And we will all remember that- those horrible images of Afghans who had clung to a wheel well on a C17 dropping out of the sky to their deaths. So the execute- the decision and the execution and the execution in particular does not speak to competency.
MAJOR GARRETT: And when you talk about capacity, are you saying anything else outside of what you just articulated, meaning execution and decisions?
AMB. CROCKER: Well, MAJOR, we’ve got to be- we’ve got to be fair here and- and a little bit honest with ourselves. President Biden didn’t create this whole scenario. President Trump did by engaging the Taliban in talks without the Afghan government in the room. That began a process of delegitimization of the state and its security forces. That was a huge contributing factor to where we are now. I mean, that said, President Biden owns it. He- he- he’s taken ownership of the policy. He has taken ownership of the envoy who negotiated this thing. So lots of blame to go around here, but it doesn’t all fall on President Biden.
MAJOR GARRETT: You are deeply familiar with this region and many of the players in the next week. Mr. Ambassador, what are you most afraid of?
Story continues
AMB. CROCKER: I am afraid that as the Taliban gains more control, as they settle in a bit more, they are going to go after all of those in Afghanistan who have spoken the truth then in the media, who have represented the institutions of this young democracy and certainly those who have helped us directly like the interpreters. I’m very much afraid that this is going to get worse. The chaos may subside, but as it does, I am terribly worried you’re going to see the Taliban start to methodically take care of those they consider their enemies. We will be in no position to help them.
MAJOR GARRETT: Mr. Ambassador, as you’re probably well aware of, many members of Congress, senators and House office members are creating, if you will, satellite state departments, trying to use whatever means they have email, cell phone calls to try to work on behalf of either constituents or those that they have come to know in Afghanistan to get them out. What does that say about the functionality of the current State Department?
AMB. CROCKER: Well, with respect to State Department personnel, I mean, among my heroes are those state people out of the airport right now doing everything they can to make this process work faster and to work better. That said, there are capacity problems. Those on the front lines did not create those problems and are not in a position to fix them. But it’s just incredibly important that we concentrate now on getting those folks out. Look, right as we speak. I am involved in an effort to get a particularly prominent person out of that country before it’s too late. It’s kind of like the Dunkirk evacuation. So it’s again, it’s- it’s a really rough time. It didn’t need to be this way. Look, Mike McCaul, ranking member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee and I did a joint op-ed at the beginning of May when we said here’s what the administration needs to do. If they’re going all the way out, which we opposed, you know, they’ve got to have a way to get intelligence capabilities offshore that are going to work and keep our nation safe. They’ve got to take care, obviously, of American citizens. They’ve got to take care of the interpreters. They have to take care of those women and girls who are particularly vulnerable. You know, we put all that out there again three and a half months ago. None of it was acted on.
MAJOR GARRETT: I’m going to give you three countries, China, Pakistan, Russia. Have the events of the last two weeks made America weaker vis a vis those three countries?
AMB. CROCKER: It has created a global crisis, quite frankly. It has emboldened violent Islamic radicals, and I think we’re all going to see the fallout of that, certainly in Pakistan. They championed the Taliban because they felt they had no choice. Well, the Taliban victory, the narrative of defeating the great- the great infidel empowers radicals in Pakistan that they’re going to have to deal with if they can. And that’s a country of 220 million people with nuclear weapons. China has its Uyghur Muslim population in its west. They’re tuned in. They’re- they’re- they’re definitely looking at what happened in Afghanistan. And, of course, the Russians have their own Muslim populations in very violent places in the past, like Chechnya. So they might be doing a little bit of high fiving. But, boy, it’s not going to last because what is happening in Afghanistan isn’t going to stay in Afghanistan. This will be felt around the world.
MAJOR GARRETT: Ryan Crocker, former ambassador to Afghanistan on behalf of the United States government, coming to us from Spokane, Washington. We thank you, sir, very much for your time and expertise. We’ll be right back with the latest on the coronavirus pandemic.
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Ryan Crocker: Afghanistan is a ‘problem from hell’ with no good remaining options
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Ryan Crocker served as ambassador to several countries, including Afghanistan. Lauren Lancaster / The National
As the Taliban tighten control across Afghanistan and the Pentagon scrambles to fly thousands of stranded US citizens and Afghan allies out of Kabul, veteran American diplomat Ryan Crocker is blaming successive US administrations for what he calls a “surrender” to the militant group.
Mr Crocker, who spent 40 years in the US foreign service and served as ambassador to Afghanistan between 2011 and 2012, sees Kabul’s fall to the Taliban on August 15 as a culmination of mistakes by US policymakers since September 2019, when former president Donald Trump approved direct talks with the militants in Doha.
What followed in February 2020 was a total US withdrawal deal that excluded President Ashraf Ghani’s government while granting broad concessions to the Taliban.
The “Taliban had a consistent position; they’ve been saying they’re ready to talk to us, but not with our Afghan puppets [the Kabul government] in the room,” Mr Crocker said, speaking to The National from his native Washington state.
“By conceding on that point, what [former] president Trump is telling us is that these are not peace negotiations, these are surrender talks.”
He compares them to the 1973 Paris Peace Accords that officially ended America’s involvement in the Vietnam War two years before the North Vietnamese victory.
The Doha deal “completely delegitimised the [now-collapsed Afghan] government and its security forces, forced it to release 5,000 Taliban prisoners who rejoined the fight, and it was absolutely predictable,” said the former ambassador, whose career included ambassadorships in Iraq, Syria, Pakistan and other countries.
When President Joe Biden took office in January, he only “made it worse,” Mr Crocker said.
“He completely embraced Mr Trump’s policy, he continued with his [Afghanistan] envoy Zalmay Khalilzad, and he came to take ownership of this completely flawed process.”
By retaining Mr Khalilzad and announcing a hard timeline for withdrawal, “Mr Biden was basically saying, ‘I am Donald Trump’".
Asked whether it was inevitable the US would have had to strike a deal with the Taliban eventually, given 20 years of failed efforts to defeat them and to build a self-sustaining central government, Mr Crocker disagreed.
“It’s a completely false argument. When I left Afghanistan as ambassador in 2012, we had almost 100,000 troops on the ground. The Taliban controlled no provincial capitals and we engaged in a steady drawdown of our forces. So that when president Obama left office in 2017, we were a little over the 10,000 mark,” he said.
“We changed the mission of our forces during the Trump administration. They have not been in a direct combat role for several years now. We got down to around 5,000 and the Taliban still did not control a single provincial capital. We were by no means forced into this — we chose to go there.”
Maintaining the status quo by leaving a few thousand US troops was a “cheap insurance policy” at preventing another September 11-style attack on the American homeland, he said.
That attack was planned from Afghanistan by Al Qaeda, who were sheltered under the Taliban, prompting the US-led invasion.
With the Taliban now back in power, an Al Qaeda resurgence is a real threat, Mr Crocker said, while rebuffing notions the militant group will “moderate” some of its hard-line stances.
Expand Autoplay Image 1 of 5 A young girl walks through a camp for internally displaced people, administered by the United Nations High Commission for Refugees in northern Afghanistan. Photo: Ruchi Kumar for The National.
“It’s a problem from hell. We have severely degraded our ability to find out what they might be doing because of pulling out like this. We’re not going to have the intelligence resources … and we have no idea what the Taliban are going to do,” he said.
The former diplomat pointed to divisions within the Taliban between fighters on the ground and officials in Doha, making the situation even harder to read.
“It’s going to be a really interesting ride as they figure out their own way forward. Based on history, it’s not going to be one we’d all like.”
Mr Crocker sees the prospects of Afghanistan descending into civil war as “still a possibility” and contends “there are no good options, there are no good choices, and there are no good outcomes".
Further, Mr Biden’s handling of the crisis raises questions “on his fitness to be commander in chief,” Mr Crocker said.
“President Biden inherited a very bad hand from Trump and then made it worse.”
He added that Mr Biden “has already betrayed his own vision for his presidency".
“He said that ‘America is back’, that we will rebuild and strengthen our alliances with Nato and elsewhere, we will put the emphasis on diplomacy, not on military force. And what did he do? He unilaterally announced to complete the withdrawal without consulting with Nato. He set in motion a policy that could lead to another tidal wave of refugees hitting Europe,” Mr Crocker said.
“We have shown the world again: don’t count on us. We won’t be there when you need.”
The specs: 2018 Harley-Davidson Fat Boy Price, base / as tested Dh97,600
Engine 1,745cc Milwaukee-Eight v-twin engine
Transmission Six-speed gearbox
Power 78hp @ 5,250rpm
Torque 145Nm @ 3,000rpm
Fuel economy, combined 5.0L / 100km (estimate)
The specs: 2018 Harley-Davidson Fat Boy Price, base / as tested Dh97,600
Engine 1,745cc Milwaukee-Eight v-twin engine
Transmission Six-speed gearbox
Power 78hp @ 5,250rpm
Torque 145Nm @ 3,000rpm
Fuel economy, combined 5.0L / 100km (estimate)
The specs: 2018 Harley-Davidson Fat Boy Price, base / as tested Dh97,600
Engine 1,745cc Milwaukee-Eight v-twin engine
Transmission Six-speed gearbox
Power 78hp @ 5,250rpm
Torque 145Nm @ 3,000rpm
Fuel economy, combined 5.0L / 100km (estimate)
The specs: 2018 Harley-Davidson Fat Boy Price, base / as tested Dh97,600
Engine 1,745cc Milwaukee-Eight v-twin engine
Transmission Six-speed gearbox
Power 78hp @ 5,250rpm
Torque 145Nm @ 3,000rpm
Fuel economy, combined 5.0L / 100km (estimate)
The specs: 2018 Harley-Davidson Fat Boy Price, base / as tested Dh97,600
Engine 1,745cc Milwaukee-Eight v-twin engine
Transmission Six-speed gearbox
Power 78hp @ 5,250rpm
Torque 145Nm @ 3,000rpm
Fuel economy, combined 5.0L / 100km (estimate)
The specs: 2018 Harley-Davidson Fat Boy Price, base / as tested Dh97,600
Engine 1,745cc Milwaukee-Eight v-twin engine
Transmission Six-speed gearbox
Power 78hp @ 5,250rpm
Torque 145Nm @ 3,000rpm
Fuel economy, combined 5.0L / 100km (estimate)
The specs: 2018 Harley-Davidson Fat Boy Price, base / as tested Dh97,600
Engine 1,745cc Milwaukee-Eight v-twin engine
Transmission Six-speed gearbox
Power 78hp @ 5,250rpm
Torque 145Nm @ 3,000rpm
Fuel economy, combined 5.0L / 100km (estimate)
The specs: 2018 Harley-Davidson Fat Boy Price, base / as tested Dh97,600
Engine 1,745cc Milwaukee-Eight v-twin engine
Transmission Six-speed gearbox
Power 78hp @ 5,250rpm
Torque 145Nm @ 3,000rpm
Fuel economy, combined 5.0L / 100km (estimate)
The specs: 2018 Harley-Davidson Fat Boy Price, base / as tested Dh97,600
Engine 1,745cc Milwaukee-Eight v-twin engine
Transmission Six-speed gearbox
Power 78hp @ 5,250rpm
Torque 145Nm @ 3,000rpm
Fuel economy, combined 5.0L / 100km (estimate)
The specs: 2018 Harley-Davidson Fat Boy Price, base / as tested Dh97,600
Engine 1,745cc Milwaukee-Eight v-twin engine
Transmission Six-speed gearbox
Power 78hp @ 5,250rpm
Torque 145Nm @ 3,000rpm
Fuel economy, combined 5.0L / 100km (estimate)
The specs: 2018 Harley-Davidson Fat Boy Price, base / as tested Dh97,600
Engine 1,745cc Milwaukee-Eight v-twin engine
Transmission Six-speed gearbox
Power 78hp @ 5,250rpm
Torque 145Nm @ 3,000rpm
Fuel economy, combined 5.0L / 100km (estimate)
The specs: 2018 Harley-Davidson Fat Boy Price, base / as tested Dh97,600
Engine 1,745cc Milwaukee-Eight v-twin engine
Transmission Six-speed gearbox
Power 78hp @ 5,250rpm
Torque 145Nm @ 3,000rpm
Fuel economy, combined 5.0L / 100km (estimate)
The specs: 2018 Harley-Davidson Fat Boy Price, base / as tested Dh97,600
Engine 1,745cc Milwaukee-Eight v-twin engine
Transmission Six-speed gearbox
Power 78hp @ 5,250rpm
Torque 145Nm @ 3,000rpm
Fuel economy, combined 5.0L / 100km (estimate)
The specs: 2018 Harley-Davidson Fat Boy Price, base / as tested Dh97,600
Engine 1,745cc Milwaukee-Eight v-twin engine
Transmission Six-speed gearbox
Power 78hp @ 5,250rpm
Torque 145Nm @ 3,000rpm
Fuel economy, combined 5.0L / 100km (estimate)
The specs: 2018 Harley-Davidson Fat Boy Price, base / as tested Dh97,600
Engine 1,745cc Milwaukee-Eight v-twin engine
Transmission Six-speed gearbox
Power 78hp @ 5,250rpm
Torque 145Nm @ 3,000rpm
Fuel economy, combined 5.0L / 100km (estimate)
The specs: 2018 Harley-Davidson Fat Boy Price, base / as tested Dh97,600
Engine 1,745cc Milwaukee-Eight v-twin engine
Transmission Six-speed gearbox
Power 78hp @ 5,250rpm
Torque 145Nm @ 3,000rpm
Fuel economy, combined 5.0L / 100km (estimate)
Our Time Has Come
Alyssa Ayres, Oxford University Press
Our Time Has Come
Alyssa Ayres, Oxford University Press
Our Time Has Come
Alyssa Ayres, Oxford University Press
Our Time Has Come
Alyssa Ayres, Oxford University Press
Our Time Has Come
Alyssa Ayres, Oxford University Press
Our Time Has Come
Alyssa Ayres, Oxford University Press
Our Time Has Come
Alyssa Ayres, Oxford University Press
Our Time Has Come
Alyssa Ayres, Oxford University Press
Our Time Has Come
Alyssa Ayres, Oxford University Press
Our Time Has Come
Alyssa Ayres, Oxford University Press
Our Time Has Come
Alyssa Ayres, Oxford University Press
Our Time Has Come
Alyssa Ayres, Oxford University Press
Our Time Has Come
Alyssa Ayres, Oxford University Press
Our Time Has Come
Alyssa Ayres, Oxford University Press
Our Time Has Come
Alyssa Ayres, Oxford University Press
Our Time Has Come
Alyssa Ayres, Oxford University Press
The specs: 2018 Mercedes-AMG C63 S Cabriolet Price, base: Dh429,090 Engine 4.0-litre twin-turbo V8 Transmission Seven-speed automatic Power 510hp @ 5,500rpm Torque 700Nm @ 1,750rpm Fuel economy, combined 9.2L / 100km
The specs: 2018 Mercedes-AMG C63 S Cabriolet Price, base: Dh429,090 Engine 4.0-litre twin-turbo V8 Transmission Seven-speed automatic Power 510hp @ 5,500rpm Torque 700Nm @ 1,750rpm Fuel economy, combined 9.2L / 100km
The specs: 2018 Mercedes-AMG C63 S Cabriolet Price, base: Dh429,090 Engine 4.0-litre twin-turbo V8 Transmission Seven-speed automatic Power 510hp @ 5,500rpm Torque 700Nm @ 1,750rpm Fuel economy, combined 9.2L / 100km
The specs: 2018 Mercedes-AMG C63 S Cabriolet Price, base: Dh429,090 Engine 4.0-litre twin-turbo V8 Transmission Seven-speed automatic Power 510hp @ 5,500rpm Torque 700Nm @ 1,750rpm Fuel economy, combined 9.2L / 100km
The specs: 2018 Mercedes-AMG C63 S Cabriolet Price, base: Dh429,090 Engine 4.0-litre twin-turbo V8 Transmission Seven-speed automatic Power 510hp @ 5,500rpm Torque 700Nm @ 1,750rpm Fuel economy, combined 9.2L / 100km
The specs: 2018 Mercedes-AMG C63 S Cabriolet Price, base: Dh429,090 Engine 4.0-litre twin-turbo V8 Transmission Seven-speed automatic Power 510hp @ 5,500rpm Torque 700Nm @ 1,750rpm Fuel economy, combined 9.2L / 100km
The specs: 2018 Mercedes-AMG C63 S Cabriolet Price, base: Dh429,090 Engine 4.0-litre twin-turbo V8 Transmission Seven-speed automatic Power 510hp @ 5,500rpm Torque 700Nm @ 1,750rpm Fuel economy, combined 9.2L / 100km
The specs: 2018 Mercedes-AMG C63 S Cabriolet Price, base: Dh429,090 Engine 4.0-litre twin-turbo V8 Transmission Seven-speed automatic Power 510hp @ 5,500rpm Torque 700Nm @ 1,750rpm Fuel economy, combined 9.2L / 100km
The specs: 2018 Mercedes-AMG C63 S Cabriolet Price, base: Dh429,090 Engine 4.0-litre twin-turbo V8 Transmission Seven-speed automatic Power 510hp @ 5,500rpm Torque 700Nm @ 1,750rpm Fuel economy, combined 9.2L / 100km
The specs: 2018 Mercedes-AMG C63 S Cabriolet Price, base: Dh429,090 Engine 4.0-litre twin-turbo V8 Transmission Seven-speed automatic Power 510hp @ 5,500rpm Torque 700Nm @ 1,750rpm Fuel economy, combined 9.2L / 100km
The specs: 2018 Mercedes-AMG C63 S Cabriolet Price, base: Dh429,090 Engine 4.0-litre twin-turbo V8 Transmission Seven-speed automatic Power 510hp @ 5,500rpm Torque 700Nm @ 1,750rpm Fuel economy, combined 9.2L / 100km
The specs: 2018 Mercedes-AMG C63 S Cabriolet Price, base: Dh429,090 Engine 4.0-litre twin-turbo V8 Transmission Seven-speed automatic Power 510hp @ 5,500rpm Torque 700Nm @ 1,750rpm Fuel economy, combined 9.2L / 100km
The specs: 2018 Mercedes-AMG C63 S Cabriolet Price, base: Dh429,090 Engine 4.0-litre twin-turbo V8 Transmission Seven-speed automatic Power 510hp @ 5,500rpm Torque 700Nm @ 1,750rpm Fuel economy, combined 9.2L / 100km
The specs: 2018 Mercedes-AMG C63 S Cabriolet Price, base: Dh429,090 Engine 4.0-litre twin-turbo V8 Transmission Seven-speed automatic Power 510hp @ 5,500rpm Torque 700Nm @ 1,750rpm Fuel economy, combined 9.2L / 100km
The specs: 2018 Mercedes-AMG C63 S Cabriolet Price, base: Dh429,090 Engine 4.0-litre twin-turbo V8 Transmission Seven-speed automatic Power 510hp @ 5,500rpm Torque 700Nm @ 1,750rpm Fuel economy, combined 9.2L / 100km